End of Enterprise-D

intrepid35 · Post by **intrepid35** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:19 pm

Does anyone else feel the Enterprise-D got a rather undignified end? I think the flagship of the Federation, one that single-handedly destroyed a Borg cube, saved whole civilizations, and defeated many foes over seven years deserved more than to be picked off by a few shots from an obsolete Bird-of-Prey.

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:36 pm

Yeah. I know they wanted to save some money, but surely they could have used a Vor'Cha for the sisters instead of a BoP. And have the E-D put up a bit more of a fight!

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:38 pm

I believe it was done purposefully, to leave fans unsettled, as it was such a poor way to go out. I agree fully, but I believe it was intended to be shown as such. If nothing else, at least the crash was pretty intense and worthy of the big screen.

And if you think that 1701-D went out like a chump, how about Kirk? Similar argument could be made about the immortal Captain Kirk going out in the way he did; out of his own time.

esw01407 · Post by **esw01407** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:49 pm

I found it funny that E-D suffered a rather generic coolant leak, and I could have sworn that Voyager suffered a coolant leak every other episode. Why not just have Main Engineering compartment ripped open, or several direct hits to engineering, or hell have the ship damaged by the fragments from the bird of pray.

DBS · Post by **DBS** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:36 am

esw01407 wrote:I found it funny that E-D suffered a rather generic coolant leak, and I could have sworn that Voyager suffered a coolant leak every other episode.

Maybe experience with coolant leaks on the Galaxy class led to improved safety features on later ships like the Intrepid.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:05 am

Even without shields, a standard Galaxy class starship should have been able to blow away a single Bird of Prey without a second thought. Just a few blasts from the Type 10 phaser arrays would have easily overpowered a Bird of Prey's shields and blown her to dust.

But where the hell was backup? Perhaps I haven't seen it in a while, perhaps Data mentioned something in stellar cartography about no other ships being within range (which I assume means less than a few day's travel), but why did no one call for any other ships to join them? If they're out on the Federation's boondocks, why not call for a non-federation vessel? When dealing with weapons of mass destruction as powerful as Soran's trilithium torpedo, you'd think they'd cover as many bases as they can. They'd at least organize a task force to search for and capture the Duras' vessel, since Picard knew they were working with Soran.

DBS · Post by **DBS** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:34 am

It didn't take that long for help to arrive, anywhere from a few hours to a couple of days. Just not soon enough to help with the battle.

One would assume that the Klingons would know more or less how to damage the ship's combat ability quickly, and they would know what we all suspect: if they fail to do so they would be blown out of space pretty darn fast, with or without shields.

That said, it seems that in TNG even old Birds-of-Prey have pretty good shield-karma against Type X phasers. Even fully prepared and armed, the E-D was overwhelmed by only a couple (upgraded weapons) in "Rascals". Notably, the Enterprise didn't dish out much damage then, either. Also, captain Kargan fully expected to be able to defeat the Enterprise, in the episode where Riker is exchanged as first officer. Birds-of-Prey can't handle much at all without shields, but they seem to have awfully tough shields. I don't know, just my obeservations.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:59 am

Of course, but I can't accept that Picard wouldn't have called for a huge task force (ie. more than the three ships we saw arrive). At that point, it was still possible that the Bird of Prey was going to escape, and they weren't fully aware of Soran's intentions. They knew that he had a weapon of mass destruction, was working with the Duras sisters and as such had a cloaked vessel to go about as he pleased, and had no knowledge what he intended to do with it. It turns out, he gave it to the Duras sisters.

With all this in mind, long before the battle began, I can't accept that Picard would not have asked for every ship this side of Earth to the area to track down the Bird of Prey, arrest Soran, and prevent his weapon from ever getting to anyone.

DBS · Post by **DBS** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:15 am

Of course we don't see this, but that may have in fact been done, only off-screen. It might explain why those three ships are relatively close (at least it would reasonably seem that they were).

Maybe they were too far away at first, but when alerted about Soran, they started towards Veridian, only Enterprise got there first. (One thing I hadn't thought of before is that maybe there aren't many ships around Veridian to minimize the risk of accidental contact with the natives on the fourth planet. But that's another subject altogether).

I agree with you that Picard definitely should be calling for backup here. Maybe he did, and we just didn't see it (Enterprise did not seem to bother sending out a distress signal, after all, so maybe help was already on the way), or maybe he was too emotionally distraught to do so, in which case Riker or Data should have reminded him or signaled themselves.

However, and this is just as speculative as the notion that they did call for help, just offscreen, but perhaps Picard deliberately chose to not report the situation. If either the Klingons or Romulans found out about the trilithium torpedo, they would raise a big fuss about it. Not to mention that the Klingons would probably panic, since it was so close to falling into the hands of the Duras family. Maybe Picard thought it would be better to deal with it alone.

Then again, there is no evidence at all to support that idea. We know that there must be SOME communication offscreen, otherwise how do the starships know to rescue the Enterprise survivors? So there is no reason to suspect that Picard did not inform them and they weren't already racing to the area.

Space Ghost · Post by **Space Ghost** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:21 am

Moreover, how many times have we heard about remodulating the shields? They did so with the Borg. In fact, they set them to do it randomly. Why not then?

Obviously the powers that be wanted to get rid of the Enterprise-D, so they could make a new ship for the next movie. While I loved the Galaxy class, you have to admit, it was getting tired. The interiors especially were dated and it was high time for an overhaul in my opinion.

DBS · Post by **DBS** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:27 am

I agree they wanted it to be a real surprise: No one thought that the Bird-of-Prey could possibly stand up to the Enterprise, so it was a really dramatic surprise.

But yeah, unless they fried Data's Common Sense Chip, it was a pretty shabby way to go out. It would have been better if the Duras sisters had gotten hold of the Enterprise's command access code through Geordi. Then they could have disabled plenty of systems.

Of course, even then the original idea might stand up. Who would still see the new modulation Data or Riker imput? Geordi! Maybe the reason there was so little fighting back was that the Enterprise crew spent most of the time trying to figure out what the heck was going on!

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:32 am

Argh, I hated the way they destroyed the E-D. It deserved a much more heroic death.

JudgeKing · Post by **JudgeKing** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:26 am

It was doomed the moment Deanna Troi got at the helm. It's called Deanna Troi Syndrome.

The Wormhole · Post by **The Wormhole** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:58 pm

While I definately think they should have thought up a better way for the Enterprise D to meet her end then being beaten by a BoP, I will admit that to this day I am still impressed with the sequence where the saucer crashes on Veridian. That was a pretty good scene, which rivals anything done with CGI today, IMO.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:27 pm

Oh, I agree entirely that the scene was visually brilliant, but could they not just make it a bigger ship that destroyed the flagship of the federation?