Scimitar vs. Sovereign

[stitch626]

Could have been worse. Could have been another Threshold.

[m52nickerson]

Could have been worse. Could have been another Threshold.

Threshold was far worse. At least the reason we don't see the tech brought back with the Voyager can be explained in any number of ways.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye. Thresholed, on the other hand, can't be.

In a way, Threshold was a marvel of writing. Never did I see a script made purely of plot holes.

[Mikey]

And amphibian porn.

[Sionnach Glic]

Ew, yeah. That too.

[Mark]

That's all I can say about newt sex.

[Tsukiyumi]

That's all I can say about newt sex.

That has to be the first negative thing I've seen you post about sex.

[Mark]

And likely to be the last..........I hope

[Sionnach Glic]

Yeah, that ep could really have done without the salamander sex.

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, that ep could really have done without the entire ep.

Fixed.

[Sionnach Glic]

Yeah, much better. Hell, even Braga said the episode was shit. When the guy who wrote it says that.....

[Coalition]

Initially it did, but the Borg adapted quickly, after which it wasn't much more effective than usual. It was the torpedoes that really made the difference, not the shields.

Well, Borg cubes are (IIRC) 28 cubic kilometers of high-tech assimilating death machine (or a little over 3 km on a side). Voyager is ~343 meters long from front to back, and if it was a solid rectangular block it would be a little over 3 million cubic meters (or .003 cubic kilometers). Even though Borg cubes have that massive empty area inside (as seen in First Contact), I am countering by measuring the entire volume Voyager takes up. That means a single Borg cube is about 9000 times bigger than Voyager, with all the advantages of fire control, coordination, and power generation that implies.

I'm surprised Voyager lasted as long as they did.


For Scimitar vs Sovereign, what would have been better is if Shinzon had decided to kill Romulus rather than Earth. No threat to the Federation, it is an internal Romulan matter, and the Prime Directive would forbid interference. Of course, you would have Worf looking all angry that he is having to save Romulans (he could even be the one arguing for enforcing the Prime Directive, as it would let the Romulans kill each other and keep the Federation out).

But Picard would do it anyway, because it is the right thing to do.

Have Donatra arrive as before, but she mentions that there are rebellions breaking out all over the Romulan Empire, due to Shinzon's supporters trying to take control. As a result of the rebellions, she only has the lighter craft with her. Battle goes as before, but Picard decides to use the nebula gasses to track the Scimitar (giant space ship moving through a nebula = turbulence, shoot at the turbulence).

Have boarding parties manage to get on board the Scimitar, and randomly shut down equipment (and place charges, and kill crew, and shoot anything flashy). Remans will be wearing combat visors (to protect against bright lights), while the Federation personnel are steadily moving around. Worf beams over along with them, and gets separated from the other Federation personnel. Without anyone to watch, he gets to have fun (and afterwards, has the biggest grin on his face the entire trip home). Remans were shipyard workers, and shock troops, so they are not properly trained in shipboard tactics, but the combat groups are willing to take horrendous losses to win, while the shipyard workers panic. Federation troops are little better, but mostly understand the concept of maneuver (aka go up the ladder, and shoot other stuff).

Shinzon dies trying to activate his weapon as it is over Romulus, and Data has to sacrifice himself to shut it down. B-4's systems do not have the complexity needed to run Data's base programming (unlike the movie, they do not load all of Data's memories, most of which is secret or top secret Starfleet information, into B4), and it causes the network to overload. The remains are listed to be turned over to Commander Maddox.

Picard is badly injured in the final battle though, and Romulan doctors have to save his life. Various comments about several of Shinzon's followers stopping the fighting when they hear what Shinzon tried to do to Romulus, and others being shamed that it took a Federation Captain to save the Romulan homeworld.

Afterwards, Picard is talking to Riker, and he casually mentions that given how many times they have had to violate the Prime Directive to do what is right, the Prime Directive might need to be rewritten. They can list several different times where they had to disobey the PD to do the right thing (list several different races across different seasons for product enhancement, and Worf adds "The Dominion" for DS9 tie-in) for better benefit. Include a comment about when has justice ever been as simple as a rulebook.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, Borg cubes are (IIRC) 28 cubic kilometers of high-tech assimilating death machine (or a little over 3 km on a side). Voyager is ~343 meters long from front to back, and if it was a solid rectangular block it would be a little over 3 million cubic meters (or .003 cubic kilometers). Even though Borg cubes have that massive empty area inside (as seen in First Contact), I am countering by measuring the entire volume Voyager takes up. That means a single Borg cube is about 9000 times bigger than Voyager, with all the advantages of fire control, coordination, and power generation that implies.

I'm surprised Voyager lasted as long as they did.

Size =/= power.

[Mikey]

Size =/= power.

Not necessarily, but there are plenty of implications in 'Trek that for a given tech level, bigger means better, faster, more.

*snip Coalition*

That's a better plot than what we got, but the problem is that the PD doesn't apply. IIRC, the Romulans are already warp capable.

[Coalition]

Size =/= power.

When the enemy warship is 9000 times larger than you, it can waste 99% of its space and still annihilate you with what is left. When the enemy warship is more advanced than you, it just annihilates you faster (unless you have character shields).

First Contact showed a Federation fleet vs a Borg cube, and the Federation fleet was getting splattered (until Picard told everyone to shoot at the same spot). So unless Voyager is more powerful than a Federation fleet, they should have been tiptoeing through Borg space. The phased torps make sense there, as they don't want a Borg cube to get a chance to open fire on them. The batmobile armor keeps them safe from long-range shots. Voyager basically turns into an crunchy eggshell with a sledgehammer.

That's a better plot than what we got, but the problem is that the PD doesn't apply. IIRC, the Romulans are already warp capable.

True, but Worf can bring in the argument about Enterprise not interfering in the Klingon Civil War, as it was an internal Klingon matter (and the Klingons were definitely warp-capable). If the Enterprise didn't interfere then, they should not interfere now.