Replicators

[ultron2099]

Yes, and as I stated, replicators leave bit errors in the molecular pattern. a warp coil i suspect must be exactlingly made to such a high degree that pattern duplication with a replicator leaves too many errors to function with the degree of necessary precision required such as the creation of a stable warp field.

That renders the issue of warp coils irrelevant, as Mikey says. It does not answer the question of why they're also incapable of producing various medicines, Romulan blood (but Klingon blood is an acceptable substitute) or fancy rainwater.

Various medicines because again the pattern needs a certain level of precision in its creation, perhaps in the enzyme layout to bond with other enzymes or what not. Romulan blood because they haven't got it programmed into the system and its too divergent from vulcan blood and perhaps because vulcan and by extension romulan blood is based off of a different chemical process then klingons and humans who have simpler blood. Klingons bleed red, vulcans and romulans bleed green.

fancy rainwater? maybe latinum, which you could scan and find the bit errors signifying pattern replication marking it as forged and thus not true gold pressed latinum. Remember, the federation and all other empires having mining operations and still require raw materials. replication technology does not free them up from requireing material resources, it just allows them to molecularly construct simple things that don't require exacting precision down to the molecular or atomic levels.

[Grundig]

I bet you could try to replicate a warp coil. But I wouldn't wanna be on the ship that tested it.

I can't imagine the amount of energy that would need to go into the creation of even a small amount of matter. Nuclear bombs release ridiculous amounts of energy from a very small mass - wouldn't the opposite be true?

[ultron2099]

I bet you could try to replicate a warp coil. But I wouldn't wanna be on the ship that tested it.

I can't imagine the amount of energy that would need to go into the creation of even a small amount of matter. Nuclear bombs release ridiculous amounts of energy from a very small mass - wouldn't the opposite be true?

yes, hence why its easier to convert mass to energy to mass then it is convert energy to mass.

[Captain Seafort]

Various medicines because again the pattern needs a certain level of precision in its creation, perhaps in the enzyme layout to bond with other enzymes or what not.

They can reliably create subatomic bonds (as would be required if they were putting stuff together from pure energy) but they have problems with simple enzymes? I need Rochey's gif for this.

Romulan blood because they haven't got it programmed into the system and its too divergent from vulcan blood and perhaps because vulcan and by extension romulan blood is based off of a different chemical process then klingons and humans who have simpler blood. Klingons bleed red, vulcans and romulans bleed green.

Sorry, doesn't work - if the Romulan blood were that much more complex it's highly unlikely that Klingon blood (which would have come from Worf, not the replicator) would have been compatible with the Romulan.

fancy rainwater? maybe latinum, which you could scan and find the bit errors signifying pattern replication marking it as forged and thus not true gold pressed latinum.

I'm not talking about latinum - I'm talking about rainwater. Can't remember the specific episode, but it involved a planet with rare rainfall, and rainwater that couldn't be replicated.

Remember, the federation and all other empires having mining operations and still require raw materials. replication technology does not free them up from requireing material resources, it just allows them to molecularly construct simple things that don't require exacting precision down to the molecular or atomic levels.

Indeed - it's greatest advantage is its removal of the manufacturing phase for the items that can be replicated, and a reduction in the amount of storage space required. It does not allow the magicing of stuff out of energy.

[ultron2099]

Various medicines because again the pattern needs a certain level of precision in its creation, perhaps in the enzyme layout to bond with other enzymes or what not.

They can reliably create subatomic bonds (as would be required if they were putting stuff together from pure energy) but they have problems with simple enzymes? I need Rochey's gif for this.


The interaction of living things or possibly even the vacines require a higher level of precision, something a transporter could achieve but not a standard replicator. You don't need Rochey's gif for this.

Romulan blood because they haven't got it programmed into the system and its too divergent from vulcan blood and perhaps because vulcan and by extension romulan blood is based off of a different chemical process then klingons and humans who have simpler blood. Klingons bleed red, vulcans and romulans bleed green.

Sorry, doesn't work - if the Romulan blood were that much more complex it's highly unlikely that Klingon blood (which would have come from Worf, not the replicator) would have been compatible with the Romulan.


His blood wasn't compatible, it was a component IN his blood that couldn't be replicated that was. so they filtered his blood which may have made it useless to him and fed it back into the romulan.

fancy rainwater? maybe latinum, which you could scan and find the bit errors signifying pattern replication marking it as forged and thus not true gold pressed latinum.

I'm not talking about latinum - I'm talking about rainwater. Can't remember the specific episode, but it involved a planet with rare rainfall, and rainwater that couldn't be replicated.


if the rainwater couldn't be duplicated, they were probably referring to something in the water. remember, anything that gets replicated has to be programmed into it first at the molecular level. if they don't have it programmed, your probably looking at long hours of scanning and inputting. and i don't remember the episode either.

Remember, the federation and all other empires having mining operations and still require raw materials. replication technology does not free them up from requireing material resources, it just allows them to molecularly construct simple things that don't require exacting precision down to the molecular or atomic levels.

Indeed - it's greatest advantage is its removal of the manufacturing phase for the items that can be replicated, and a reduction in the amount of storage space required. It does not allow the magicing of stuff out of energy.

magicing of stuff out of energy? never said it did, but simple patterns can be replicated. thats why food, clothing and even a watch or guitar can be replicated. its really just a case of converting energy into matter. to save ship systems they just include a matter to energy process before.

[Captain Seafort]

magicing of stuff out of energy? never said it did

its really just a case of converting energy into matter.

Which is it? Are you, or are you not, claiming that replicators are capable of producing items through matter-energy conversion without access to a supply of base mass?

Even transporters, which are far more capable devices, specifically refer to a matter stream, not energy, when operating. This suggests that the replicators merely break down the base mass (probably at the molecular level), rather than converting it into energy.

[ultron2099]

magicing of stuff out of energy? never said it did

its really just a case of converting energy into matter.

Which is it? Are you, or are you not, claiming that replicators are capable of producing items through matter-energy conversion without access to a supply of base mass?

Even transporters, which are far more capable devices, specifically refer to a matter stream, not energy, when operating. This suggests that the replicators merely break down the base mass (probably at the molecular level), rather than converting it into energy.

the matter stream may be a clue then on how they transport the person. as i stated below, i did not know how they moved material from ship to planet, other then a particle field. particles are matter and makes sense that a straight line would be called a stream. now considering the matter is broken down, i would not believe they move matter through circuits, conduits or pipes, but rather break the matter down to energy, move the energy, then recombine it into matter. Perhaps it leaves the ship as a particle stream of matter that contains the essential building blocks we are made of and then those pieces are recombined using some form of particle manipulator. Again, transporter technology mistifies me without a 'the fly' reassembling station. such as transporter to transporter beaming.

back to replicators. in voyager "the year of hell" chakota replicated a watch for janeway and referred to it as a months worth of rationing and she told him to return it because that watched meant a boot or hypo or something else that could later be essential too the crew. this lends credence to the idea that matter can be converted back to energy and returned to the power grid. also remember that on voyager, much of their food rationing was supplemented by a hydro garden, further stressing that straight energy to matter conversion, even simple food, is extremly energy constly. Now enterprise could get away with this waste because they were in the almost unlimited supply network of the federation, voyager couldn't because they had to scrounge for energy, parts, and such since they had no supply network.

[Mikey]

Or a hatch cover.

[ultron2099]

Or a hatch cover.

[Teaos]

Since they seem to work as the same funtion it would seem to be the main difference would be the computing power involved. That would also explain how they have so many replicators on a ship. Each one is only the size of a microwav attached to a central computer core.

[Captain Seafort]

i would not believe they move matter through circuits, conduits or pipes, but rather break the matter down to energy, move the energy, then recombine it into matter.

Why not? Your theory presuposes that they are able to convert matter to energy and back again at will. The alternative, that they can break matter down at the molecular or atomic level and then recombine said matter at the other end, requires no such presupositiom.

back to replicators. in voyager "the year of hell" chakota replicated a watch for janeway and referred to it as a months worth of rationing and she told him to return it because that watched meant a boot or hypo or something else that could later be essential too the crew. this lends credence to the idea that matter can be converted back to energy and returned to the power grid. also remember that on voyager, much of their food rationing was supplemented by a hydro garden, further stressing that straight energy to matter conversion, even simple food, is extremly energy constly. Now enterprise could get away with this waste because they were in the almost unlimited supply network of the federation, voyager couldn't because they had to scrounge for energy, parts, and such since they had no supply network.

The provides no specific support to one theory or the other - it merely demonstrates that Voyager's resources are finite, and limited. You assume that by "recycle" Janeway refered to converting the watch back into energy. Why could it not refer to converting its structure back to base mass, that could be then used for any other item that contained the same elements or molecules as the watch?

[Aaron]

back to replicators. in voyager "the year of hell" chakota replicated a watch for janeway and referred to it as a months worth of rationing and she told him to return it because that watched meant a boot or hypo or something else that could later be essential too the crew. this lends credence to the idea that matter can be converted back to energy and returned to the power grid. also remember that on voyager, much of their food rationing was supplemented by a hydro garden, further stressing that straight energy to matter conversion, even simple food, is extremly energy constly. Now enterprise could get away with this waste because they were in the almost unlimited supply network of the federation, voyager couldn't because they had to scrounge for energy, parts, and such since they had no supply network.

Wait, wasn't she replicating coffee every goddmamn day?

[Mikey]

this lends credence to the idea that matter can be converted back to energy and returned to the power grid.

No, not really. It lends credence to the idea that an item can be de-constituted into the base replicator "fuel" from which it came.

[Sionnach Glic]

Kendall:
Yep, she was replicating cofee basicaly every episode. Untill, of course, Neelix started up with that whole "I am the god of cofee!" thing, that is.

[Aaron]

Kendall:
Yep, she was replicating cofee basicaly every episode. Untill, of course, Neelix started up with that whole "I am the god of cofee!" thing, that is.

No boots for her then!