Just how hardcore is Data?

[MetalHead]

Watching clips from TNG's "The Most Toys" got me thinking.

Just how violent could Data potentially be?

His Android strength is obviously significant considering the way in TNG and in a few of the movies he hurls other humanoids around. I wonder just how hard he could strike something in terms of pounds of force and mph of the impact? I dont think he could be as flexible as a biological being, he's sitll a machine, and components usually don't stretch (thats just pure speculation though). So if was taught martial arts per say, how well would that work for him?

And weapons? Data could probablly fire the fastest (and with the most accuracy) with any kind of weapon, be a sniper from any range really.

But the real question is can he kill? Sure in "The Most Toys" something took over and he decided that the guy was to evil to remain alive, but in general (before his Emotion Chip), could Data Kill? I can't think of any examples. All question.s I know.

[kostmayer]

Well, he stabbed Troi cause he mistook her for a cake (a likely story, the guy doesn't eat).

And he's literally pushed the button on both his brothers - and offed a fair few borg with his bare hands.

Dunno about any human kills though. Given his vast knowledge, hacking skills, and superior strength and reflexes - and the fact he's pretty bulletproof - I'd say he's one paintjob away from being a rather efficient assassin.

I would say Terminator, but his lack of contractions would be a dead giveaway. Though it would be funny to see the look on the good guys face when he removes Data's "Core Processor", only to discover all they've really done is just turn his emotions off and make him completely cold blooded.

[Mikey]

I don't recall any hard examples of killing any sentient humanoids (unless you count the Borg) but I would have to guess that what looks like "normal" hand-to-hand combat could easily be lethal when Data is involved. And I don't want to re-open the passionate debate about killing v. murder, but I'm sure Data is quite capable of "justified" killing. Plus, if he does have any scruples about it - hey! Just kill those emotions for the moment!

As far as his flexibility, etc. - it will never improve, as a human's would with study, practice, and excercise; but I'm sure his joints are articulated with a greater range of motion than ours... OR with a similar range, but able to bear greater stresses when extended.

[MetalHead]

Given his Android strength, you're right, I'd say what looks like normal hand-to-hand should be lethal. With Data's knowledge of Anatomy as well, it would be all to easy. A few key points would include temples, the throat, certian areas in the abdomen, etc. If a normal human can swing a punch at about 25mph on average (28mph tops) and land with several hundred pounds of force (up to 1000lbs using certian kicking techniques) which can cause severe internal damage I reckon Data could be very nasty.

Is it just me or did the writers (accidently, im sure) never actually show Data killing sentient life beyond the Borg and all those Remans he took out in Nemesis when he blew the ship up.

The Most Toys demonstrated that when absolutely essential, he can kill, but look how much it took! Thereagin, with his emotion chip, I reckon things differ.

[Mikey]

Hmm... good point. Would that hinder or help his willingness to kill?

[Captain Seafort]

Hmm... good point. Would that hinder or help his willingness to kill?

It'd probably depend on the situation. Greater empathy with his opponents would probably hinder him to some extent, but if his friends were threatened - watch out. Throttling the Borg in "Descent I" was probably a good indication of what would happen.

[Mikey]

Even though he didn't yet have his chip, IIRC, in "The Most Toys," there was the intimation of anger when he fired.

[Graham Kennedy]

I would say that if Data was not morally prepared to kill, then he would have no business serving in Starfleet. Whatever quibbles there might be about Starfeet being military or not, it most certainly does serve a military function and that involves killing people sometimes. He signed up to that when he joined.

Has he personally killed? He's certainly killed Borg. He's been instrumental in killing others, albeit somewhat indirectly; for instance he dropped the cloak on the BoP in Generations, allowing Worf to destroy the ship. I'm sure there must be other examples of his assisting in killing in that way.

I don't ever remember seeing him take a non-Borg down permanently in hand to hand combat or with phaser fire, though.

Oh, one thing... if memory serves, Data told Armus that he was a creature wholly without positive attributes, and then said "I think you should be destroyed." That struck me as most unlike him, but it shows a willingness to kill or at least condone killing.

[Sionnach Glic]

Perhaps he only has a problem with killing Starfleet officers? As was already pointed out, he's killed plenty both directly and indirectly.

[KuvahMagh]

I imagine that when his programming recognizes a justifiable need for lethal force he could use it. In other words he isn't going to beam down to a primitive planet and start blasting everything in sight but if someone else did it is likely he would do whatever needed to be done to stop them.

[Captain Seafort]

The details of Data's explanation of his "block" on killing, from "The Most Toys":

DATA
I have been designed with a
fundamental respect for life in
all its forms... and a strong
inhibition against causing harm
to living beings.


FAJO
A military pacifist. What a
marvelous paradox. Tell me --
whose dreadful decision was it
to enlist you in Starfleet?

DATA
It was ultimately my own decision.
My skills seemed appropriate...

FAJO
My dear Data, it was a mistake.
A grievous error. You no more
belong in Starfleet than I belong
in a verbal contract. Have you
killed yet, Data?

DATA
No, but I am programmed with the
ability to use deadly force in
a cause of defense.

FAJO
Shame on you.

A beat as Data reacts.

FAJO
Shame on you. How neatly you
rationalize your capabilities.
How can you casually accept your
role in murder?

DATA
I would not participate in murder.
Perhaps you misunderstand...

Key bits bolded - he states that he has an inhibition against taking life, but nonetheless retains the abilit to use lethal force. This seems to indicate that his inhibition is merely a restriction of the circumstances in which he could kill, rather than an absolute ban. He later indicated a clea intention to kill an unarmed man (and was only stopped by an unexpected beam out), which sets the limits on his ability to use lethal force rather widely.

[Graham Kennedy]

Data was often played as though he really did have human emotions and frailities, somewhere down under there. Whether he really did, or it just appeared that way, is left ambiguous.

For instance it's not absolutely clear that Data intended to kill Fajo. It sure looked that way... but maybe he was just trying to intimidate him, and maybe something really did "occur during transport" as he suggested to Riker.

[Captain Seafort]

Data was often played as though he really did have human emotions and frailities, somewhere down under there. Whether he really did, or it just appeared that way, is left ambiguous.

True - to me Data seemed pretty pissed off at Fajo at the end of that episode, and ready to kill him purely out of vengeance. At the other end of the spectrum there's Data and Tasha - he always clammed up PDQ when she was mentioned, particularly in "Measure of a Man", and generally seemed to display genuine feelings for her.

[Mikey]

My point exactly about the intimations of anger at the end of "The Most Toys." I had mentioned earlier that I think the question was not whether he would kill - as GK mentioned, that would almost be a prerequisite for Starfleet service - but whether he would either murder or kill in a non-defensive or proactively justified manner.

[Graham Kennedy]

Well he was on duty during the Dominion war. One can only assume that Starfleet employed lethal force as a matter of course during the war, and Data would have gone along with that.