The Laithan war. Rejoice, Chapter Seven is now here!

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:43 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:It has been proven, repeatedly. Determining which of a number of theories best fits the data available, and therefore the one to be considered proven, is not the same as a mathematical proof. You are attempting to redefine it as such.

Check up the meaning of proof, then. It is not considered proven. It is the one with the highest chance of having happened - if you think "likely" as opposed to "unlikely" means proof, then you really should be looking up facts before expressing them.

Mikey, I did not make a post about me not taking a position - I said there are other possibilites of any given, or even most accepted situation in Trek unless proven otherwise. People have then proceeded to argue against that (yourself included), when it is a simple fact. I have not been arguing against a point, but having been trying to explain that everything has a chance of happening or not happening - and that chance is only ever 1 or 0 when expressly proven. Evidence is not proof. Proof is proof. Proof is undeniable, irrefutable, absolute, utterly correct. If there is doubt, it is not proof. That is all proof - not just mathematical proof.

Proof =/= evidence
Proof = Fact
Evidence = speculation with basis
Likely =/= certain
Unlikely =/= impossible
Maybe =/= certain
Maybe =/= impossible
Maybe = non-0 and non-1 chance of happening. Between certain and impossible.

It is not impossible that the Argo has a shield. It is unlikely to have one.
It is not certain that the Argo has a shield. It is unlikely to have one.

DarkOmen · Post by **DarkOmen** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:26 pm

Thorin wrote:
It is not impossible that the Argo has a shield. It is unlikely to have one.

jesus... this should be the end all to the arguement, and thorin has said it several times before.

The Question: Does the Argo have a shield
The Answer: WE DON'T KNOW.

[/Argo Debate]

plus, this is Rochey's story thread, and were clogging it up with nonsense.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:02 pm

So, because we don't know a concrete answer, we shouldn't be able to discuss it?

I don't believe that Thorin's definition of evidence is correct, but that's really academic at this point. I think the whole point of this forum is to engender debate and discussion, and that entails taking up one position on an issue or another. I understand fully well that Thorin meant when he said that maybe it has shields, maybe it doesn't - but if that's allwe allow for in our discussions, there would be no real reason to visit this forum.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:09 pm

Dark omen, calm down!

DarkOmen · Post by **DarkOmen** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:22 pm

There is nothing wrong with debate, but you guys are just going around and around in circles... I don't understand trying to argue a point that can't be proven...

And you guys were going at it pretty vehemently...i was scared

And like i said...this is Rochey's story thread, it should be reserved for that...

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:39 pm

Thorin wrote: Evidence = speculation with basis

Ah I knew I was right in calling it evidence in that other thread even if it was shakey evidence.

Seriously though why does it matter if the Argo had a shield or not? If Rochey wants it to than it can if not than it doesn't.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:47 pm

plus, this is Rochey's story thread, and were clogging it up with nonsense.

See those fifteen pages? About five of them are actualy relevant to the story

.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:29 pm

Hmmm... 33% on-topic. Still a little high for DITL, but I guess we could let it slide.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:50 pm

Mikey wrote:So, because we don't know a concrete answer, we shouldn't be able to discuss it?

Of course not - when did I say otherwise? Why are things been needlessly taken out of context. I made almost a passing comment on how Starfleet might not be as inept as is utterly possible, which was then picked apart with no proof.

I don't believe that Thorin's definition of evidence is correct, but that's really academic at this point. I think the whole point of this forum is to engender debate and discussion, and that entails taking up one position on an issue or another. I understand fully well that Thorin meant when he said that maybe it has shields, maybe it doesn't - but if that's allwe allow for in our discussions, there would be no real reason to visit this forum.

I didn't intend it to be discussion - look for yourself. I made one post on the matter saying it's a wild theory that just may make Starfleet less inept (marginally). I did not continue a discussion on any side - as I have repeateded endlessly, I did not expect it to take several pages to explain the difference between evidence, proof, assumption, maybes, and certainties/impossibilities.

Post by **Mikey** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:13 am

Very well. Let's leave it at this: You are absolutely correct in saying there is a chance of the Argo being shielded, and a better chance than of a M/AM pod being constructed of spun sugar. I maintain that if we had to pick "shielded" or "unshielded," then the evidence points to "un."

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:16 am

Mikey wrote:Very well. Let's leave it at this: You are absolutely correct in saying there is a chance of the Argo being shielded, and a better chance than of a M/AM pod being constructed of spun sugar. I maintain that if we had to pick "shielded" or "unshielded," then the evidence points to "un."

I agree.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:14 am

Can we start pestering you about chapter 8 now?

DarkOmen · Post by **DarkOmen** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:39 am

ROCHEY!!!!!!!!!! YO QUIERO CHAPTER OCHO!!!!!

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:34 am

Can we start pestering you about chapter 8 now?

No.

YO QUIERO CHAPTER OCHO!!!!!

I I want chapter eight? You should work on your grammer.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:47 pm

I was under the impression you can say Yo verb but its not needed. Like Tu Quera works just as work as Quera. Kind of like I am and I'm. I may be wrong with that though, not a native speaker.