Laithan xenobiology, sociology and history.

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Captain Seafort
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Post by Captain Seafort »

This is very cool. A few points through, if I may.

Weapons: Very good, and would take any Trek "army" apart in short order. I like the way you've given them plenty of grenades and a LAW apiece. One problem though is the delay fuse - 1/3 sec is far too long. Modern rifles have a muzzle velocity of about 1000 m/s, so unless the delay is reduced to around 1/2000th of a second or less the round will be out the target's back before it goes off. The magazine capacity also seems a bit low - I'd suggest you give them caseless ammo and bump the magazine capacity up to about 100 rounds (the FN Minimi, though it's a light machinegun rather than a rifle, carries twice this, of brass-cased ammunition, and is still light enough to be fired standing from the shoulder).

Organisation: Careful Rochey, this is Star Trek, you can't have organised ground troops. :wink: I would suggest, though, putting even numbers of troops in the fire teams - it makes fire-and-manoeuvre easier and simplifies any buddy system the Laithans operate. Another point, which is something of a personnal bugbear of mine regarding all sci-fi military org charts is the lack of a combined arms structure - every unit from battalion level upwards should have integrated armour, artillery, combat engineers, equipment support, and supply units.

These are only minor tweaks and suggestions though - the Laithans sound like they could take on a modern army with much trouble. When are you going to start writing about ground combat? I want to read about the Feds reactions when they realise how far out of their league they are. :twisted:
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Post by Granitehewer »

I second Seaforts' motion
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Post by Deepcrush »

First off if your firing rounds at a 1000m/ps then don't even bother with LEAP rounds, your bullet would be 20 feet down the hall if you use any form of timer. Anything moving more then 1000m/ps would slam the shooter against the wall behind them. If you are looking for a M/V then I'd go with no more then 600 or 700m/ps. The best use of a LEAPR is a contact fuse with a pressure release trigger. That would give you what you are writing about. Timers on bullets don't work, they make things to complicated. Stick with the basics. Remember you aren't firing a standard round. LEAPR's are far heavier and not useful when fired from over heated weapons. If your rate of fire is to high the weight and recoil would make it hard to simply hold the weapon, let alone aim it. A LEAPR is great for taking down something that normally wouldn't come down with a FMJ round, and any form of body can stop a JHP round. The LEAPR is the trooper level of heavy fire. Good for bringing down enemy troops who are behind walls or wearing heavy body armor.

L.E.A.P.R.
Light Explosive Armor Penetrating Rounds
(The ones that go BOOM after they hit or go into someone or something.)

Light Explosive - Pressure trigger fuse off of magnesium core. When the round contact the Explosive charge, phosphorus which burns fast and hot, compresses with the magnesium then when the pressure releases even in the slightest way, the round explodes.

Armor Penetrating Round - Most know how this works but just in case. Armor penetaition comes from either one or a combo of things, here are a few. Bullet design, bullet materials, muzzle velocity, range etc...
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Post by Monroe »

They have guns now that fire using electric pulses. They sound kind of like a zipper being pulled. I think you should use something similiar to that. Would also leave a distinctive sound on the battlefield.

Also, you need automatic shot guns (Great for ship cooridors) and SAW / E-Web or some kind of heavy infantry repeating weapon. Maybe this is where you can use that electric bullet idea.

Another thing you could use is guns that could shoot arund cooridors. They have them today. An LCD screen attached to the barrel and a hinge lets you look around corners then fire. One or two people in the squad could have a smaller weapon like this as their secondary weapon. [/i]
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Wow, thanks for the advice guys.
Most of what I wrote came from my general knowledge of weaponry. Which I know see is rather behind the times.
Seafort wrote:One problem though is the delay fuse - 1/3 sec is far too long. Modern rifles have a muzzle velocity of about 1000 m/s, so unless the delay is reduced to around 1/2000th of a second or less the round will be out the target's back before it goes off.
I pretty much guessed at that, so thanks for the info, I'll go back and edit that a bit.
The magazine capacity also seems a bit low - I'd suggest you give them caseless ammo and bump the magazine capacity up to about 100 rounds (the FN Minimi, though it's a light machinegun rather than a rifle, carries twice this, of brass-cased ammunition, and is still light enough to be fired standing from the shoulder).
Okay, thanks.
Organisation: Careful Rochey, this is Star Trek, you can't have organised ground troops.
I'm surprised the universe didn't implode as I wrote that. :lol:
I would suggest, though, putting even numbers of troops in the fire teams - it makes fire-and-manoeuvre easier and simplifies any buddy system the Laithans operate.
Okay, I was thinking of adding a medic to each squad as well. That would bump the numbers up to 16.
Another point, which is something of a personnal bugbear of mine regarding all sci-fi military org charts is the lack of a combined arms structure - every unit from battalion level upwards should have integrated armour, artillery, combat engineers, equipment support, and supply units.
Don't worry, I haven't forgotten them. That essay was only on the infantry forces, I'm going to start an essay on other units later on today.
Another point, which is something of a personnal bugbear of mine regarding all sci-fi military org charts is the lack of a combined arms structure - every unit from battalion level upwards should have integrated armour, artillery, combat engineers, equipment support, and supply units.
Soon enough. And don't worry, the Feds have no idea how outgunned they are on the ground. :twisted:
Deepcrush wrote:First off if your firing rounds at a 1000m/ps then don't even bother with LEAP rounds, your bullet would be 20 feet down the hall if you use any form of timer. Anything moving more then 1000m/ps would slam the shooter against the wall behind them. If you are looking for a M/V then I'd go with no more then 600 or 700m/ps. The best use of a LEAPR is a contact fuse with a pressure release trigger. That would give you what you are writing about. Timers on bullets don't work, they make things to complicated. Stick with the basics. Remember you aren't firing a standard round. LEAPR's are far heavier and not useful when fired from over heated weapons. If your rate of fire is to high the weight and recoil would make it hard to simply hold the weapon, let alone aim it. A LEAPR is great for taking down something that normally wouldn't come down with a FMJ round, and any form of body can stop a JHP round. The LEAPR is the trooper level of heavy fire. Good for bringing down enemy troops who are behind walls or wearing heavy body armor.
Er, I have no idea what that means. :lol:
I think I get what you mean about the timer. Perhaps the bullet could explode on contact with the person, with the momentum pushing it into the body as it explodes?
L.E.A.P.R.
Light Explosive Armor Penetrating Rounds
(The ones that go BOOM after they hit or go into someone or something.)
That sounds mostly like what I was going for.
Monroe wrote:They have guns now that fire using electric pulses. They sound kind of like a zipper being pulled. I think you should use something similiar to that. Would also leave a distinctive sound on the battlefield.
Really? Cool...
But I think I'll stick with projectile weapons for now. They're more versatile, and I've had the idea about using different ammo types.
Also, you need automatic shot guns (Great for ship cooridors) and SAW / E-Web or some kind of heavy infantry repeating weapon.
Don't worry, I have them down too.
Another thing you could use is guns that could shoot arund cooridors. They have them today. An LCD screen attached to the barrel and a hinge lets you look around corners then fire. One or two people in the squad could have a smaller weapon like this as their secondary weapon.
That is incredibly cool.



Anyway, thanks for all the advice. I'll go over it agian, put in some more details, change a few things, etc, and post the revised version here. :)
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Okay, I went over the infantry part of the essay, and expanded and moddified it greatly. I also wrote up the entry on vehicles, changed the organisational structure a bit and made it more clear that there are combined arms operations as standard. Enjoy, and let me know if something else dosen't make sense. :)
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The Laithan Army

The Laithan Army is the (rather unimaginative) name of the Imperium's ground forces. Unlike most races we have encountered, the Laithan put a good deal of emphasis on ground warfare, seeing space warfare as too inflexible to allow proper take overs of ground positions.

Organisation:
The basic organisational unit is a 'regiment'. Each regiment has twenty battalions.
The basic Laithan ground unit is known as a rannóg, which translates roughly as 'squad'. This squad is composed of sixteen individuals. One sergeant, who leads the squad, one medic, two corporals and twelve privates. The squad is occasionally broken up into three fire-teams, one led by the sergeant and the others led by the corporals. Each fire-team will contain at least one 'heavy' weapon.
There are four squads in a platoon, which is commanded by a lieutenant. The lieutenant often directs the battle from a command vehicle or dropship of some sort, and rarely goes into battle.
There are ten platoons in a battalion (commanded by a major, note that platoons nine and ten are dedicated heavy weapon teams and support units only), and twelve battalions in a regiment (commanded by a colonel) out of the total of twenty battalions per regiment. Along with the actual fighting force is a massive assortment of supply units and vehicles. Each squad has access to a transport vehicle capable of carrying the entire squad.
Along with the infantry forces, there is also squads of armoured combat vehicles, known as 'tanks', which are often deployed into major battles with infantry support. These tank squads are organised the same as infantry forces, with some differences.
Laithan tanks are organised into several categories; light, medium, and heavy.
Each tank squad contains sixteen tanks, the same as an infantry squad, which will often fight in pairs on the ground. The difference is that each tank is commanded by a corporal, rather than there just being two, as in infantry squads. There are four tank squads in a platoon, commanded by a lieutenant, and ten platoons in a battalion, commanded by a major. Platoons one through three are composed of light tanks (crewed by two each), platoons four through eight are composed of medium tanks (crewed by four each), and platoons nine and ten are composed of heavy tanks (crewed by eight each). There are four tank battalions in every regiment.
The remaining four battalions are divided up as follows:
1 Artillery/missile/chemical warfare battalion
1 Anti-air/anti-space battalion
1 Supply battalion which also includes the command units
1 Supply battalion that also includes the medical corps

This brings the total number of personnel in a regiment to 56,560 personnel

Regiments are organised into 'legions' of twenty regiments. Combined with the legionary command unit, the total number of personnel in a legion is 1,135,200.
It is not unheard of for the Laithan Army to commit over a thousand legions to invade a heavily defended world.

The soldier:
Each basic soldier, or saighdiúir, is a well armed and trained professional. Laithans are on average stronger than humans, due to their physiology, and their technology allows them to use this natural strength and resilience to create endless legions of murderers.

Unlike the soldiers of many other races, Laithan soldiers appear to be heavily armoured. This armour is composed of an unknown type of metal, built in plates to form a sort of carapace over the creature. The effectiveness of this armour is unknown as in the only incident in which Laithan soldiers were encountered (see details of the USS Bastion) there was little evidence left of the gunfight. We believe, however, that this armour will prove mostly ineffective against the more advanced phasers used by the Federation, and would only be of use in stopping low powered shots, such as stun settings.
Under this layer of metal, is a thick layer of fabric. This appears to be fire-retardant and possibly resistant to corrosive chemicals.
What few samples of the armour itself was found to have wires (a type of primitive way of getting power) running through the inside of the armour. This, along with details of the helmet (see below), leads us to believe that the armour is powered in some way, possibly from a small battery located on the lower back. Whether this serves to increase their strength or abilities in any way is unknown.
The helmet of the Laithan armour is highly unusual in shape and function. The helmet itself is elongated, due to the shape of the Laithan head, with two domes on either side which cover the Laithan's compound eyes with some sort of glass-like material. The helmet has many built in features, one of the reasons we believe the suit of armour to be powered, which assist the Laithan in combat. The helmet includes a built in communicator, activated by one of the creature's mandibles, a targeting system which works through some unknown method, although our current guess is at a low-level AI, a compass and a map of the area which can be projected onto the inner surface of the eye-domes, a magnification system, and a group of other sensor systems built into the top of the helmet where the Laithan's antennae would normally be. Also, the entire suit is able to seal fully and run off a small tank of air located on the back of the suit, providing protection against harmful chemicals, or even a vacuum.
The hooves of the suit also appear to have some sort of magnetic clamps on the soles of them, providing traction in the event of boarding a hostile starship. There is also a small torch on the right shoulder, and one on the side of the helmet.

Each Laithan soldier is outfitted with several weapons. Each soldier will have a primary weapon, which is the most commonly used, a secondary weapon, used if the primary weapon runs out, and a selection of other deadly tools.
Laithan weapons are incredibly varied, though the most common of which is the Automatic Projectile Rifle, designated 'APF' for short. This weapon resembles firearms similar to those used during Earth's late twentieth century. It has a long barrel, which is used to help accelerate the projectile, a stock, which is used to steady the weapon, and a handle, with a primitive trigger unit built into it.
The weapon fires a small projectile which contains a miniature explosive device built into the head. Once the projectile hits something (such as a person) the device will explode on contact, the momentum of the projectile is more than enough to allow the projectile to penetrate the skin of a target, thus exploding inside and causing severe internal damage. Each weapon carries magazines of eighty projectiles, and each Laithan carries around five of these magazines. A possible modification to this weapon is also carried by every trooper; a device which allows the weapon to fire around corners. This device fits onto the front of the weapons barrel, and clips into place rather easily. A small lever allows the soldier to swing the extended barrel around to the left or the right, effectively allowing the Laithan to shoot around corners. Targeting is acquired through a small camera underneath the extended barrel, which transmits to the Laithan's helmet display, giving the soldier a 'guns eye view' of whatever is around the corner. It is not unknown for soldiers to keep this addition on at all times.
There are several different ammo variants used by Laithan soldiers, and the soldier is free to choose whichever combination of magazines he or she wishes to take into combat. Some of the variants are as follows:
Light Explosive Armour Penetrating Round (LEAPR): The standard Laithan ammunition.
Armour Penetrating Round: A projectile designed to penetrate heavy armour, such as walls or light vehicles. They do not have an explosive tip, but have greater penetration than LEAPR rounds.
Corrosive acid rounds: These rounds have a vial of an unknown, but extremely dangerous, chemical. This is easily capable of burning straight through a person in seconds, and also has good effect against armoured targets.
Pulse rounds: These rounds are not projectiles, instead it is a low-power energy pulse, useful for stunning targets. Laithans tend to use this when they want live captives. Due to the fact that this is an energy weapon, repeated use of these magazines can melt the barrel of the gun with prolonged firing.
There are several other variant ammo types, but the above are by far the most common.
Another weapon that is usually carried by boarding teams is known as a gunna gráin, which is highly similar to ancient Earth 'shotguns'. This weapon fires a spread of explosive projectiles, causing extreme damage at close range or in the cramped corridors of a ship.

The secondary weapon is similar, but smaller. They fit comfortably into the hand of the user and are quick and easy to use. There is a surprising number of variants, but the most common one uses a twelve shot magazine, with two spare clips. The projectiles of this weapon are not explosive.
Each Laithan soldier also carries several other devices. The most common of which is a small, roughly spherical, object known as a 'grenade'. There are an astonishing number of different grenades, many of which perform different functions, but the most common one is the Fragmentation grenade. This device explodes and fires out thousands of small bits of shrapnel. These white-hot fragments are lethal at fifteen meters, and are capable of wounding at greater ranges. Laithan soldiers carry five of these devices. Another variant is known as the 'armour' grenade. This device is specially designed for destroying hardened targets such as vehicles or buildings. Laithan soldiers carry four of these. Other, rarer, variants include stun grenades, EMP grenades, smoke grenades (it is confirmed that Laithan troops carry two of these), vaporisation grenades, and many others. Many of these variants are hardly ever seen in combat, and are only issued to troops sent on specific missions.
Other devices include a sensor unit, similar but less versatile as a tricoder, a backup set of magnification devices, smoke pellets, for use in signal communications, a small first-aid kit, a small laser-designator, and several other items.
Also, every second soldier carries a small, one shot, 'rocket launcher', capable of destroying armoured targets.
It is due to the fact that each soldier is capable of carrying such a heavy load with little apparent difficulty that we assume strength must be increased by the armour suit.
Three members of every squad (one per fire team) will also carry a 'heavy' weapon. There are many different types, but the most common ones are listed below:
Missile Launcher: This is a larger, three barrelled, version of the one-shot launcher carried by every second soldier. It is capable of repeated firing, or of firing all three missiles at once. There are several different types of missiles, the most common are; frag, armour, AA, heat seeking, and several other types.
Light Machine Gun: This is simply a larger version of the Laithan rifle. It is capable of rapid firing (200 shots per second) and includes a bipod stand at the front of the barrel to allow it to be fired from a prone or fixed position, increasing accuracy. There is a heavier version of this weapon, known as the 'Heavy Machine Gun', which is capable of more rapid and accurate fire, but due to its size is only seen in fixed mounts such as vehicles or turrets.
Flame-thrower: This weapon is one which was outlawed long ago by the Federation as being barbaric and in-humane to use. It fires a stream of liquid fire over a long distance (50 metres) at temperatures of 900 degrees, capable of melting armour with some time. This weapon is usually used against fixed weapon emplacements and bunkers, but can also be used in an anti-tank role.
There are several other types of weapon, but the above are the most commonly seen.

Vehicles:
The Laithan army makes extensive use of armoured vehicles.
Transports: The Laithans make extensive use of both cargo and personnel transports. Each squad of Laithan troops will have a transport, known as a nathair class armoured transport.
This vehicle is capable of carrying fourteen troops (with equipment) in the rear, with the driver and sergeant in the front. The vehicle is well armoured, and has a rotating turret on top with a heavy machine gun mount controlled by the sergeant from the cab of the vehicle. The vehicle itself is fully pressurised, and can be used in a hostile environment, or in the middle of chemical warfare (a common tactic used by the Laithan army).
There is a command version of this vehicle, known as the nathair nimhe class. This vehicle is more heavily armoured, with the seats in the rear replaced by banks of monitors and communication and sensor equipment. This gives Laithan commanders the ability to command from the front lines in relative safety.
Laithan supply units are known to use a wide variety of different vehicles.

Light Tanks.
There are two main types of Laithan light tanks.
The most common one is known as the diabhal class. This is crewed by two, and has three weapons. The main weapon is a large, 120 millimetre, cannon that can fire a great variety of explosive shells, there is a co-axial light machine gun fixed next to it. Both are controlled by the tank commander from the turret. The third weapon is a forward hull mounted heavy machine gun, controlled by the driver. This vehicle is propelled by a pair of treads, and is believed to have a top speed somewhere around sixty miles per hour.
The less common one is known as the toirneach class tank. Instead of being propelled by large treads, as most Laithan tanks are, it uses four large wheels. This increases the speed considerably, but at a cost in survivability. It is thought that this is the reason they are less commonly used. This tank is more lightly armed, with one cannon of smaller proportions than the diabhal class, and a co-axial light machine gun. This tank is crewed by two.

Medium Tanks
There are three main types of Laithan medium tanks.
One is known as the tintreach class tank. This is a large vehicle in comparison to other medium tanks, but is well armed. The armament consists of a large turret, almost twice the diameter of that of a diabhal class, and a co-axial light machine gun. Both of these are controlled from the turret by the commander. Another weapon is a forward hull mounted heavy machine gun, similar to that on the diabhal class and is controlled by the driver. The remaining weapons are two side mounted sponson guns. The armament of which can vary greatly, variants including heavy machine guns, flame-throwers, and grenade launchers have all been seen. This vehicle is crewed by four (commander, driver, 2 gunners).
Another type of medium tank is the ispín class. This class does not have an automated loading system, instead using a member of the crew as a loader. It is unknown why they chose not to have an automated system in this tank. Armament includes one 200 mm cannon, one co-axial light machine gun, and one hull mounted missile launcher, located on the rear of the vehicle. This vehicle is crewed by four (commander, loader, missile operator, driver).
The third, and rarest, type of tank is the scriu liathróid class. This vehicle is a dedicated infantry support vehicle, but is rarely used in actual combat. It is armed with three twin-barrelled heavy machine guns. Each controlled by two gunners and the commander. This vehicle is crewed by four (commander, 2 gunners, driver).

Heavy tanks
Only one type of heavy tank has been confirmed to exist.
The ifreann class heavy tank is a fearsome opponent. It's armour is nearly unbreachable by conventional armaments, and it carries enough firepower to lay waste to an entire army. It's weapons include in 400 mm canon, one co-axial heavy machine gun, two sponson guns with twin-barrelled heavy machine guns, one 120mm cannon in a secondary turret in front of and below the main turret, a co-axial light machine gun, a hull mounted heavy machine gun, and a missile launcher located at the rear of the tank. This vehicles armour is estimated to be an incredible forty inches thick, making it incredibly difficult to destroy, and leading to its immense size (20M long, 10M wide, 5M high). This vehicle is only deployed in the most important battles. This vehicle is crewed by eight (one commander, 5 gunners, missile operator, driver).

Artillery
The Laithan military makes extensive use of artillery weapons. The most common of this is the amaideach class self-propelled artillery gun, capable of firing a massive shell at a range of thousands of kilometres with pinpoint accuracy.
The Laithan military also makes use of missile launchers, most commonly the briosca class. This vehicle is crewed by three and contains thirty two missiles capable of being fired at ground or air targets.
There are also unconfirmed reports of large ground-space missile launchers, more information on these will be transmitted as it becomes available.

Other
There are also numerous reports of various vehicles designed for chemical warfare. The design of these vehicles differ immensely, but each is capable of firing many chemical-spreading rockets over long distances. The idea of using chemical weapons against ground targets is something which has never occurred to the Federations more traditional enemies, and we estimate major losses among the civilian populations of planets unless a cure is devised quickly.
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Post by Mikey »

Sorry I'm a little late on this one, but...

Deepcrush is right - there are many types of armor piercing rounds. For small arms, the most common (I believe) are APDS - armor-piercing discarding sabot. To spice 'em up a little, you could construct them froma depleted heavy element - depleted uranium has been and could be used And current weapons using delayed-detonation fuses are mostly anti-installation LAW-types, and their delay fuse is only a few milliseconds after initial contact.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

The most common AP ammo for small arms is the FMJ round - APFDS (armour-piercing, fin stabilised, discarding sabot, commonly know as "fin") is mainly used in tank guns, made of either depleted uranium or tungsten. Tungsten is, I believe, prefered over DU due to the political and health issues surrounding the latter.
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Thanks for the info, I think I included a line about AP rounds.
And I'm not going to go into that much detail, this is just an overview of their capabilities and their most common units.

Hmm, I think tommorow I'll go back and do the space one again, I was rather scarce on actual details. :?
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Post by Monroe »

Rockey, this bad boy is what I was refering to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8hlj4EbdsE

How it works is you stack bullets in the barrel and then it sends an electric pulse that ignites the prepellant and fires stacks of bullets at once.
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Post by Monroe »

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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Cool, thanks.
I can see that 'metal storm' one being used as a heavy defense weapon.
*ponders how many redshirts it would take to invade a base defended by these*
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Post by Monroe »

Yeah I was thinking either a tank with one of those that could just shoot down incoming missiles or shuttle craft and /or a tripod thing you setup that can be manned by remote control or is automatic to cover a cooridor.
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Post by Granitehewer »

have a ZSU Shilka in your story!
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Yeah I was thinking either a tank with one of those that could just shoot down incoming missiles or shuttle craft and /or a tripod thing you setup that can be manned by remote control or is automatic to cover a cooridor.
I'm thinking of writing them as automated sentry guns, or heavy anti-infantry emplacements.
have a ZSU Shilka in your story!
A what?
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