Abramsverse version of DITL?

Discuss the site here - suggestions, comments, complaints, etc.

Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:34 am

Are you guys are going to do a DITL treatment to all of the ships featured in the two movies? It doesn't have to be as extensive but you could do a small mirror site or seperate page to feature all of the technology and ships. Even articles discussing the differences or interesting things seen in the movies.

Just asking.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 5062
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:44 am

Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:04 am

Well I meant a 'different' DITL that had everything Abrams bit everything Roddenberry on the main site.

Ships would also include even the NX class as well as the Ring ship Enterprise.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 5062
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:50 am

The NX class and ring ships would be the same in both universes since they happen before the branch off point in 2233.

We've talked a lot about the best way to incorporate Abramsverse stuff. We considered having some sort of special section or subsite or something, since this one is obviously going to be a much bigger alternate than others we've encountered - although in terms of hours spent on it the Mirror Universe probably beats out the Abrahmsverse. But DITL is already set up to handle alternate universes, with alternate timelines and ships and such, so in the end we decided to just stick with the existing structure.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Teaos » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:32 pm

You could make a Section 31 top classification zone, click the button, up pops a request for a password, anything you enter is accepted, then it takes you to the "Alternate universe" section, with all the "research" section 31 has done on the alternate universe. Or just make it starfleet intelligence.
User avatar
Teaos
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 15251
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Mikey » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:32 pm

My own personal (and probably largely worthless) opinion is that Graham and Ian should do things in the way that a) they like, and b) require the minimum amount of effort on their part.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
User avatar
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 35552
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:04 am
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:35 pm

Teaos wrote:You could make a Section 31 top classification zone, click the button, up pops a request for a password, anything you enter is accepted, then it takes you to the "Alternate universe" section, with all the "research" section 31 has done on the alternate universe. Or just make it starfleet intelligence.

Given my INTENSE dislike of Section 31, the former option is very unlikely. :)
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Captain Seafort » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:01 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:The NX class and ring ships would be the same in both universes since they happen before the branch off point in 2233.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm convinced that the differences in the scale and aesthetics of Abramsverse engineering compared to the Geneverse means that there's a branch point before the Narada's arrival.

As for the issue of whether a new site is needed, there might come a point in the future where it would make sense to go down that route due to the volume of information available, but that's a long way off.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 15453
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:18 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:The NX class and ring ships would be the same in both universes since they happen before the branch off point in 2233.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm convinced that the differences in the scale and aesthetics of Abramsverse engineering compared to the Geneverse means that there's a branch point before the Narada's arrival.


And I've said it before and I'll say it again - that opinion is not directly supported by anything in canon. At best it depends on assumptions and interpretations of canon which are entirely subjective.

And it's clearly not the intent of those who created the 2009 film - and they even have characters explicitly say so right there on screen :

SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely.

As for the issue of whether a new site is needed, there might come a point in the future where it would make sense to go down that route due to the volume of information available, but that's a long way off.

It really depends on what happens next. I'm presuming there will be a third film, since Into Darkness made money. After that... if there are more films, or a spin off TV series set in the same universe, something like an Abramsverse TNG perhaps, then we'd have to relook at it.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Captain Seafort » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:01 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:And I've said it before and I'll say it again - that opinion is not directly supported by anything in canon. At best it depends on assumptions and interpretations of canon which are entirely subjective.


The neo-E is as big or bigger than a GCS and considerably faster. The idea that the mere arrival of the Narada could have led to Fed engineering producing something that size a century ahead of time in a period when they'd already have been looking for every slight advantage in the Klingon cold war, defines belief.

The issue of speed is a bit iffy, given that the E-nil's demonstrated capabilities mean that either ships got a lot slower in the century between TOS and TNG, or the two are already different universes.

And it's clearly not the intent of those who created the 2009 film - and they even have characters explicitly say so right there on screen :

SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely.


It's indisputable that the Narada's arrival changed history. However, Spock didn't have the additional evidence we do of the scale of the differences between the Geneverse and Abramsverse, nor was he discussing timeline changes in general - he was specifically addressing the effects of Nero's actions.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 15453
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:26 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:And I've said it before and I'll say it again - that opinion is not directly supported by anything in canon. At best it depends on assumptions and interpretations of canon which are entirely subjective.


The neo-E is as big or bigger than a GCS and considerably faster. The idea that the mere arrival of the Narada could have led to Fed engineering producing something that size a century ahead of time in a period when they'd already have been looking for every slight advantage in the Klingon cold war, defines belief.

It may defy your belief, perhaps.

The Federation of Kirk's era built Spacedock, a structure which is some 950 times the volume of a Galaxy class Starship. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that building large structures is impossible for them. Speed is more of an issue, but it's certainly not impossible that the Abrams Trek made some advance in warp drive that the original timeline did not. And if anything, common sense would indicate that such a thing is less plausible if it happened in earlier, in more primitive times.

It's indisputable that the Narada's arrival changed history. However, Spock didn't have the additional evidence we do of the scale of the differences between the Geneverse and Abramsverse, nor was he discussing timeline changes in general - he was specifically addressing the effects of Nero's actions.

Indeed, one can posit that the Narada's arrival caused a branching off from a universe that had already branched off at an earlier point. However, it is up to anybody who wants to make that assertion to prove it.

But the point I was making is that the creators of the film put that scene in there, using the dialogue they did, specifically to explain to the audience what they intended this film to depict. Whether you like it or not, their intent is that Nero's arrival is the branching point. You can reject that if you like, but that's the basis the Abramsverse is built on and that's the point of view it's being written on.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby Tsukiyumi » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:55 pm

I still like the idea that the Borg time travel in FC created an alternate timeline, which we see in Enterprise, and then the Abramsverse is a branch off of that. :)
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
User avatar
Tsukiyumi
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 21747
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby McAvoy » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:37 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:The NX class and ring ships would be the same in both universes since they happen before the branch off point in 2233.

We've talked a lot about the best way to incorporate Abramsverse stuff. We considered having some sort of special section or subsite or something, since this one is obviously going to be a much bigger alternate than others we've encountered - although in terms of hours spent on it the Mirror Universe probably beats out the Abrahmsverse. But DITL is already set up to handle alternate universes, with alternate timelines and ships and such, so in the end we decided to just stick with the existing structure.


That is what i am talking about. There really isn't a reason a side from aesthetics because I doubt it isn't that difficult to find the Abrams ships on the site if someone is looking for it.

I am just thinking to keep the two universes separate from each other. Even expand on the background ships that we have seen with conjecture.

As far as the point of departure between the two universes. First Contact could be one or not. I doubt s single large ship like the Narada caused the dramatic departure that we have seen. There are too many things different that a single event like that would cause.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 5062
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Abramsverse version of DITL?

Postby stitch626 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:09 am

There is also the interference of... whomever, who caused the Xindi to attack Earth (which was stated to have not happened in the original timeline). So there is a lot of stuff that likely altered the timeline form the prime.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
User avatar
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY


Return to DITL

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest